Cardinal Müller: “You cannot have two types of Christianity”
Cardinal Gerhard Müller gave an interview to Observer, a Portuguese half, in which he recalls that dogmatic doctrine cannot be changed and warns that the teachings of Trent, Gaudium et Spes, Familiaris Consortio and Caritas in veritate cannot be ignored.
05/11/17
(Observer / InfoCatólica) Gerhard Müller is a man as solemn as the functions he occupies. Tall, strong and erect, with his black robes from a cardinal, he is since 2012 the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the right arm of Pope Francis in the preservation of the dogmas of the Catholic Church. Elected by Benedict XVI to hold a position he himself had held, he had – and has – much in common with Joseph Ratzinger. Both are Germans, theologians and academics, and share a certain worldview. In addition, Müller was chosen by Benedict XVI to coordinate the publication of his Complete Works.
The Prefect is seen as a conservative who does not hesitate to publicly recall the precepts of doctrine when progressive voices call for change. He was attacked after recalling, in an interview with Il Timone magazine, that, in the light of Catholic doctrine, remarried divorced people live in adultery and “adultery is a mortal sin .” To the Observer , Müller says that he is not afraid of making unpopular statements: Jesus was not very well accepted when he spoke of the indissolubility of marriage. However, he feels insulted when he is credited with the epithet of police doctrine.
In the last four years, what were the main changes that Francis brought to the Church?
The media pay attention to red or black shoes, which, to me, are not so important things. They look at whether he lives in privacy in the apostolic palace or in Santa Marta. These are not matters of theological relevance, but the most significant is the new style that comes from the experience of the Pope in Latin America, closer to the reality of the poor and the great differences that exist in society.
In Germany after World War II, there was no such disparity between classes, we have a more united society, there is more solidarity, thanks to the social doctrine of the Church that began in the post-war period in Germany, and to the Democratic parties of Christian inspiration and the Social-Democrats. There are not so many anti-clerical forces.
In my time as a university professor in Munich, I spent three months every year in Latin American countries – Peru, Brazil -. So this mentality, different from European and American, is not so strange to me. I have known some works on liberation theology that are in accord with the doctrine of the Church, while others are closer to the Marxist approach. What I gather from the theology of liberation is a further development of the social doctrine of the Church, in relation to the special circumstances existing in Latin America.
From the point of view of dogma, there is nothing to say that the Pope must come from Europe, from the center of Europe. In the past, there were many Popes from Greece, from Syria, from other parts of the Roman Empire, representing other cultures. It is not absolutely new to have a Pope who comes from a different culture. Now, for the first time, we have potatoes from different continents, but the culture of Argentina is not totally different from European. It is closer than some Asian cultures are. The Latin American reality is a mixture of European customs with native ones. In other continents, such as Africa or Asia, there is a stronger culture of its own, which does not suffer much influence from European thought. This for us is not a problem. It is a sign of the richness of revelation that all are called to belong to the same church, the same family of God throughout the world.
In Latin America, the Pope was always close to The poor, from the periphery of society, of which he speaks so much. Does this reality present challenges to the Church and to the doctrine?
We have a social doctrine. This question of the peripheries did not begin with the Pope Francisco, what happens is that he has emphasized that aspect, it has given him relief . But we did not start from scratch. In the history of the Church we find so many similar situations … When there were new encounters between different cultures, when the Germans and the Slavs entered the Christian culture that gave rise to tensions and the necessity of new adjustments. We do not have a Christian culture so purely European that it justifies being surprised by the approach of another Catholic culture. There is always a dimension of universality of the Church, which can be represented and inculturated by different peoples. Cultures must be open to the universal life of all the peoples of the world. It is these peoples of the world who form the family of God. St. John Chrysostom wrote in a famous letter to St. Irenaeus of Lyons how admirable it was that those who lived in India, Syria, and Germany at that time, despite different cultures and tongues, were members of the same body of Jesus Christ. This is a miracle and a permanent wonder that we have in the Church.
So the big difference in these four years is a matter of style.
It’s the style. The Pope who will come later will also have his own style. It was always like this, no one can be a copy of his predecessor . Every Pope, in his person, is a successor of St. Peter, dogmatically speaking, is not a successor to his predecessor. From a temporal and chronological point of view, he is, but at the level of dogma he is the successor of Peter and has the right to carry out his mission in accordance with his charism, with his history, of molding the Pontificate in his own way .
The previous Pope worked in this Congregation, was the Prefect for years. It was from the house. Francisco no. To what extent is the relationship of the two different with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith?
Due to his personal history, of course that Benedict XVI was closer. You can not spend 24 years here and then say, “This has nothing to do with me.” That is why, of course, his emotions and his sensitivity will be closer to this Congregation, but the task of this department did not change. The coming and going of a Pope does not mean the same as the entrance or departure of the Prefect. The tasks overlap and the mission of this Congregation depends not only on the Prefect, but on the priests and the 25 cardinals who work with us. The task of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has not changed and consists in advising the Holy Father, in giving support to his teaching, with authority and responsibility, with the work of day to day. For our documents and doctrines, we need the approval of the Pope, but in our daily lives we act under his authority, but with our responsibility.
How often do you meet with the Pope?
It depends. The prefects of this Congregation and the Congregation for Bishops have regular meetings with the Pope every week, every fortnight. Depending on the occasion, these meetings may be more frequent.
Are they in the apostolic palace?
Usually in the apostolic palace, because they are not private meetings with friends or family. They are working meetings in which we bring the documents that we are preparing for him to make decisions.
Amoris Laetitia
There were moments, after the election of this Pope, that insists on a pastoral orientation, in which the cardinal warned that the Church should be prudent with some changes. I am referring to the interpretation of the apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, And to the letter that some cardinals wrote to the Pope during the Synod of the Family, for example. How does it fit with the fact that it is the Prefect that sometimes it seems that the opinion of the Pope is different?
I do not believe that the Pope has changed the doctrine of the Church. Dogmatic doctrine can not be changed because it is based on the Revelation and the magisterium of the Church , the Pope and the bishops. In the doctrine of the Church, Jesus is one who reveals, is a mediator of salvation. The Apostles and their successors only exercise the ministry of revelation and salvation given to us by Jesus Christ. We must be true ministers of Christ. Pope Francis has already said in relation to the doctrine of marriage that is very clear and is very well formulated and is not solely related to words of the Bible. It is the result of doctrine established over two thousand years. We can not ignore the Council of Trent , for example, nor the doctrine on marriage elaborated in the [Pastoral Constitution] Gaudium et Spes , resulting from Vatican II, nor what is said in the [apostolic exhortation] Familiaris Consortio [by Juan Pablo II], nor in the encyclical Caritas in veritate , by Pope Benedict XVI, nor in all statements made by us. The problem today is how we should address this large number of people who do not understand Christian doctrine regarding marriage. They share another mentality that is neither friendly nor favorable to Christian life and practice. [The question is to realize] how to reach out to these people and explain what God’s grace means to us, what is the deep meaning of marriage, parenthood, becoming a father or mother. These basic elements of our anthropology are not always understood.
But these different approaches come from everywhere, including the Church. The bishops of their country, Germany, for example, have a different opinion regarding Chapter VIII of the exhortation Amoris Laetitia .
But none of this depends on the personal opinions of the members of the Church. It is not the opinions of bishops that are decisive, but fidelity to the word of God . There is a certain positivism of the magisterium here, as if the Pope or the bishops’ council were lords of revelation . That is a misunderstanding. The Pope gave an interpretation in Amoris Laetitia , and it is not good for the bishops to give an interpretation of the interpretation. I criticized that. It is contrary to the structure of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. The Pope has a superior authority, subject to revelation, and is responsible for the unity of the Church, in revealed faith. It is not someone who issues certain opinions in order to make a synthesis of opinions about it. Some bishops run the risk of paying more attention to what the public opinion can suffer than to the word of God, which should go first, according to the Bible and apostolic tradition.
And what is your proposal to deal with Catholics who got married and divorced?
The sacrament of marriage is indissoluble by the will of God. No one can change that. One possibility is to return to the legitimate husband or give up relationships that are not valid. The question is only whether the conditions for that marriage were met, in accordance with the precepts of the Church. Civil marriage is not exactly the same as the sacrament of marriage. No doubt, there are many people who fail to understand this.
Do you think you can always go back to the union?
If humanly impossible, they cannot live [with others] as if they were husbands.
Some argue that this eliminates the possibility of penance or the possibility of recognizing what went wrong, becoming involved in the life of the Church.
You cannot have two types of Christianity: one for an elite, one that respects the word of God, and another for others , to whom we impose only certain rights and sacraments, letting life run as it is. Jesus came to change the old world of sin, which included divorce. Jesus explained this very clearly . It is not so easy to satisfy God’s will. Jesus did not want to go to the Cross. We can say that it was necessary for Jesus to die for our sins, but that does not depend on our personal will, our opinion. When people say yes to only one person, for life, and are granted by God the marriage bond, He establishes an alliance between those two people. We must respect the reality of the sacrament we receive. Surely for many in the world this is strange. Many people are unable to understand it and look for ways to escape from this reality. But if we are baptized, we are baptized, we are Christians. We cannot say, “Ah, I live in a world of Muslims, I go to the mosque, because we can praise God everywhere.” If we are Christians, we are Christians. The consequences must be borne in mind. If we marry as Christians, we have to assume the consequences of this. We cannot say, “I married first, had two children, and then I married another person, I had other children and I do not want to know about the first ones.” There are obligations that result from the marriage that must be assumed.
As prefect of the Does the Congregation feel, in a way, the police of doctrine?
In a way, that seems insulting to me. It is a stereotype that falls on our Congregation. Faithfulness to the word of Jesus Christ is a task of the Church, it has nothing to do with the police . The word of God is a word of salvation. It might seem good to us that we should find a way of giving reason for Jesus Christ so that religion would be accepted by all and deserve the applause of all, but we are the Catholic Church . We have to stay close to the words of God, otherwise we lose our foundations. We cannot talk just to please people.
This means that it often corresponds to You to be the voice of duty …
If I said, “You can do what you want,” it would be very dear. They would say, “Oh, he’s a great friend of ours.” But if parents or teachers allow everything to children … In the long run, it is not good for us. Jesus himself was not so well accepted when he spoke of the indissolubility of marriage. The apostles were not very enthusiastic. They said: “It is impossible for us as men.” But Jesus said, “With the grace of God, all things are possible.” This is the Christian gospel – and not just talk to please people -. Some talk about conservatives and liberals. What are the liberals? What happened to some countries that joined liberal Christianity, reducing the base of Christianity? They fell into secularism, into indifference . It is not so easy to be and become a Christian. There is only one narrow road leading to the sky. So we must keep the revelation of Jesus Christ clear, making it possible to follow Him.